Can I test kayak fishing with my whitewater kayak inside the SF bay?

the nose of the boat dived straight down, my boat went to vertical.....the ocean came up over the sprayskirt......came up....my face and tummy were submerged.......and the boat gave a savage corkscrewing motion......and I was fully upside-down....holding my paddle with one hand....and I felt....and yes, underwater, I heard something go BANG.....and the boat was surging toward the surface but still upside down.   I came to the e-roll position, found correct blade orientation, snapped in a roll and I was back up in the air and the blue sky.    Floating like a cork...everything peachy....but I could see that my rod-holder was broken away and my rod & reel were gone.

I think you've just proven why fishing out of a whitewater yak isn't a great idea... 

Z

Is a sit-inside boat a "bad idea" for fishing....???....

No.

Because the first-rule-of-anything, is the practical rule:

A person pretty much always goes with what he's got.

If you have a decked boat and REALLY ARE "decked-boat-competent"....then you HAVE the "combat-quality" eskimo-roll skills that ARE NEEDED (and which ARE an incorporated absolute pre-requisite of paddling any decked boat anywhere)....to render that boat safe.

Tallpaul posted saying that "Its not the right tool for the job."

Tallpaul is utterly right...

Except that .... there's this rule: 

You go with what you've got.
Whatt're you gunna do....go buy a SOT just to fish in...???...

So the question: 

CAN you use a decked boat for fishing...???....
Can only be answered:   Oh Hell YES...!!!....

I totally admire SOT kayaks.

The SOT is a wonderful platform for fishing.
The SOT works better for duck hunting.

My wife has a SOT and were it not for this wonderful little 8-foot boat (OCEAN KAYAK's "YakBoard") she would not be able to accompany me to all those fabulously beautiful quiet watery places that I go.

But am I going to go out and buy a SOT...???...
I have three decked kayaks.......!!!.....

OK....Mickfish....you think I'm dumb for using 80 pound line.

What you're not understanding is that the very fact....that I drive a sit-inside kayak.....dictates some behavior(s) that you SOT'ers don't have to think about.

Forward motion of the boat will "trail any fishing line up" under the boat.   If the boater does an eskimo-roll, his body will "pick up that line" and immediately you have the much-feared situation of "line enganglement."    So to keep the line away from the cockpit and running straight down, I use a 2-pound cannonball weight.

Now think a minute.....No One is going to want to carry two, 2-pound Cannonball Weights....!!!...

So the weight becines an item you particularly don't want to lose because it would be so inconvenient to have to carry a replacement(s).   

So you solve that problem by using 80-pound main line down to the weight. Now you have a guarantee you are not going to lose your weight.     

I can anticipate your strenuous objection: 

"Who would WANT to fish with a 2-pound weight all the time???..!!!..???"   

Well, we are only talking Ocean-Fishing here.   And the 2-pound weight provides offsetting advantages.   It keeps the line (even when you are trolling) hanging pretty much straight down, so that the boater can pretty-much know that whatever amount of line he has payed out translates almost directly into "fishing depth."    And the second thing is, that the 2-pound weight both "sets the hook" (the fish's initial run comes up against the inertia of the weight)........and also (barbless hooks) does a good job of keeping constant tension on the line-to-the-fish.

Out on the ocean when I am not trolling I use hand-line.....down to a tiny weight, or down to a jig.   I personally find that jigging with a hand-line is more immediate, and more exciting and more sensitive and more fun.....than fishing with a rod.

What I'm trying to tell you is, that anyone fishing the ocean from a decked boat .... must obey certain rules and rig certain ways --- that just don't apply to SOT-guys.     

My boat's bow is fitted with a special cleated eye......and from that eye, hangs a high-quality stainless-bearing 1-inch diameter pully.   My reel is clip-mounted on a "stub-rod" to the deck of the kayak within reach of the cockpit, and the fishing line runs forward through the pully....then through a stainless steel ring....and down to my terminal fishing gear.     If you have this picture in mind, you will see that there is no concievable way that a large fish can get a "transverse pull" ---a leveraged pull from the side of the boat that would tend to capsize it.   

The "stainless steel ring" (mentioned above) is tightly served to ANOTHER line that is best visualized as a "clothesline-kind-of-loop."   This is a "circular" line that passes through the "eye" at the nose of the boat, and comes back to the cockpit where it passes through another eye-cleat.    Imagine:   That when the Decked Boat fisherman pulls on one side of this "circular" rope, the steel ring (through which the fishing line passes) will move back to the cockpit region.   When he pulls on the other side of the circular line, the steel ring will move (carrying the main fishing line) back up to the nose of the boat.

This circular line, which captures the fishing line in its steel ring, allows the boater to "bring the line back" to the cockpit region when he wants to check-bait and/or land a fish to the cockpit.

Notice that the emphasis here is to keep the fishing line away from the paddler.....and this is done to eliminate the chance of line entanglement.   The emphasis is to always play a large fish from the NOSE of the boat....eliminating any ability of the fish to capsize the boat by presenting a transverse torque.  The 2-pound cannonball weight......is integral to that.

You guys on SOTs.....don't have to look at things as a deck boater must.

For instance, one post to this thread......wondered how on earth you'd land a large fish to a decked boat.

Good question.
The answer is:    You don't.

I won't land any fish greater than about 5-pounds, to the cockpit.

Here's the scenario:   Big fish....are caught on big hooks.   Visualize that you are trying to land a 20 pound salmon to your decked boat cockpit.   You have tired the fish.   He is alongside.   You pull the cockpit sprayskirt---which makes vulnerable the otherwise securely water-tight interior of your boat---and are lifting the fish aboard.  But the muscular fish gives a big flip and drives the fishhook deeply into your hand.   

Now you are a decked boat fisherman with an open cockpit and a 20-pound salmon welded to your hand.........

So I eye all "caught fish" with great mistrust.   The big ones, I tire them out, and then I just paddle my boat to any beach.   It can be a cliff-backed beach, that's ok as long as the beach won't be "swept" while I'm on it.   Just outside the breaker-line I follow a big wave in past the foam-line where it has broken.  I then turn my boat sideways and look to the ocean. The next wave is rising to break.  The whitewater from that break hits my boat broadside (I am in "High Brace" into the foam) and for a violent moment or two picks up my boat and accelerates it broadside........all the way up to the sand.

Note:   In landing this way (rather than in surfing attitude) my line-to-the-fish spools....from the REEL.....to the NOSE OF THE BOAT....through the PULLY....straight out to the ocean.   The line is separated from the cockpit by a full half-length of the boat thus making line entanglement impossible.

I get out. I pull the boat up. And I land the fish.   All this time my 2-pound cannonball weight has been maintaining constant tension on the barbless hook.  Works good.   Never loose fish.

Fishing the ocean from a decked boat REQUIRES different technique, than a SOT.

That's my point.

Judd

Judd,

Your rationale is sound, but it may not work for everyone, and I do have to say I admire the ingenuity you have incorporated into using your decked boat for offshore fishing, but I still disagree with your thesis that "you go with what you got".

Dude, most of us that post here are gear whores... we suffer from a maddening mental pathology whereby we're looking for ANY excuse to increase our quiver of yaks, guns, poles, reels, waterproof sunscreen, whatever...

Now for some folks that are just scraping by, with no disposable income, yeah, then they go with what they got... but that’s not how I roll.  I roll with the best tool for the job at hand... that's why I've got guns and fishing rods and reels and sunscreens coming out the wazoo.

In the context of all the excellent information in this thread, the penultimate questions now need to be asked and answered by the original poster of this thread...

1) What are your skills and aggravation threshold with the tools you current have?

2) Do you have spare disposable income to rent or purchase the CORRECT tool for the job?

3) How do you roll?  (ooh, bad pun alert!!!) 

Backcountry

 

You CAN pound a nail with the handle of a butter knife, and you can work on your car with a plumbers wrench but won't be nearly as enjoyable as doing the tasks with the correct tool.

You CAN pound a nail with the handle of a butter knife, and you can work on your car with a plumbers wrench but won't be nearly as enjoyable as doing the tasks with the correct tool.

Thanks for the laugh this morning SWCA. I needed that.

Z

See........it's so unexpected......       I was trolling 80-pound line to a 2-pound cannon-ball weight.....and then 6-feet of 60-pound Monofiliment....and then 30-inches to the hook with 15-pound mono.........in an area that was not deeper than 25 feet with MAJOR rock formations.     At first I was certain I "had a big one on...".......because I got that really sweet Jig Jig Jig feeling ....and leaving the rod in the holder......I leaned forward and gave the reel a few turns to tighten it up.....yes......

That's sounds pretty foolish why would you need 80lb with a 15lb leader and 2lbs of lead in 25 FOW you were just asking for trouble.
How could you expect to land anything with the leader longer than your boat? I don't think I would ever use anything heaver than 30lb in my yak. I hope your use a little more sense kayaking than you do fishing.

And the drag set in lockdown.  LOL...

Oh man, this was a great read, thanks for reviving it Bushy.  Now only if this jwsmith guy was still around, I'd share some thoughts with him.   

80lb line with 2lb weight, in 30ft of water...I love it. 

I am very curious about kayak fishing.  Since I already have a whitewater kayak, I'd like to give it a try with that.

I will be fishing at Alameda rockwall, the fishing ground is only about 100 yards from launch dock.  Do you think I'll be OK?  Is there any potential problem?

The problem is once you are 100 yards out, you maybe tempted to go further out.
If you want to try it, the area by the boat ramp (and I suggest the area off the beach) are fairly mild.  I would say try the area by the beach in 1pm+ wind and see how you do.  Alameda usually looks decent in the morning, but if the wind picks up (and as the afternoon goes by), it will push hard.  If you fall in the water, you will be pushed away at a decent speed, so you will be in trouble in a hurry.

A sit-inside in the ocean is never a good idea imho.  Hell, some sit-on-top should never be used in the ocean.

Just remember this, fishing is a bonus, but making it back to the shore alive should always be the goal (therefore you can go fishing again).  Imagine you're dead ..... cannot be found ..... losing your gears along the way (if you survive) ....

Bluestar, you can fish in a lake or the ocean from a whitewater kayak if you have a solid roll and other whitewater skills, but it's really inconvenient.  I've been a whitewater kayaker since 1985, and I do some fishing from a whitewater kayak.  See, for example https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=13913.msg151981#msg151981 and https://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=14090.msg153356#msg153356. Where are you going to put your rod when you're paddling? If you have a whitewater kayak which you're only going to use for fishing, you can mount a flush or above-deck rod holder someplace on its front or rear deck where the rod holder and/or the rod won't interfere with paddling.  Otherwise, you'll need to break the rod down, pop off your skirt, and stuff it inside the kayak, or perhaps stick its butt down inside your PFD.  You probably aren't going to mount a fish finder on a whitewater kayak.  You'll need to bungie a net onto the deck of the kayak, because popping your skirt to get at a net stowed between your legs is dangerous while you're playing in a large fish.  Any fishing gear and fish will need to be stuffed down between your legs. Whitewater kayaks aren't very stable, and rely on paddle bracing to stay upright, so when you're fishing you'll probably need to lay your paddle across your spray skirt so you can drop your rod (hopefully not in the water) and grab the paddle if you get tipped and need to brace to stay upright. And if you catch a large fish, staying upright while playing it in without being able to use your paddle to brace will be a challenge. And if you swamp or swim out of a whitewater kayak when you're away from shore, you can be seriously screwed.

A paddle sit-on-top fishing kayak is way better than a whitewater kayak for fishing.  Sit-on-top fishing kayaks are fast and stable, and you can easly mount a fish finder, rod holders, a net, fishing tools, a cooler, a downrigger, and other fishing equipment on them or inside their hatches.  You can turn sideways in your seat to get at equipment in the rear cargo area.  You can clip your paddle into a paddle holder and fish with confidence in the stability of the kayak.  If you tip a sit-on-top kayak over, you can right it and climb back on top of it in seconds; sit-on-top kayaks are safer than sit-inside kayaks for that reason.  If you want greater control over a paddle sit-on-top kayak for surf launches and landings, you can add thigh straps to the kayak. Because nylon thigh straps are a hook magnet, I un-clip them and stow them inside or behind the seat of my paddle sit-on-top kayak while i'm fishing.

Pedal sit-on-top kayaks are way better than paddle sit-on-top kayaks because you can pedal around in the kayak while fishing with both hands, eating lunch, putting on sun tan lotion, using your phone, etc.  You can also point a pedal kayak's nose into the wind and/or current and pedal to hold yourself stationary over the bottom while fishing with both hands.  I do virtually all my kayak fishing from my two pedal kayaks.  My 13' paddle sit-on-top kayak languishes in my garage, and I only use it for river fishing and for snorkeling and speargunning for pike. You can add thigh straps to a pedal sit-on-top kayak for use when paddling it during surf launches and landings, although you obviously can't use thigh straps while pedaling.

If you want to start kayak fishing in lakes or the ocean, I recommend that you demo some pedal sit-on-top fishing kayaks, and then buy a used or new one.  Pedal sit-on-top kayaks are by far the best platform for lake and ocean kayak fishing.

    Why Not ?   Go for it.     If you whitewater , you probably know your limits.
 
Here's an article on Dave Lamourex
      In November 2009 the man cashed in a 157-pound bluefin, at the time the heaviest paddle-out kayak tuna—a feat that has yet to be equaled in Atlantic waters.

    https://www.mensjournal.com/adventure/bluefin-tuna-kayak

Wow, this is quite a thread here Bushy!  .  Summed up as "BECAUSE, REASONS!"   

Oh man, this was a great read, thanks for reviving it Bushy.

Ugh.  I didn't notice that the first page and a half of this thread was posted in 2008.  By now the original poster has probably given up all forms of human powered boating and switched to playing shuffleboard, assuming they survived their whitewater kayak experiments in 2008.

Oh man, this was a great read, thanks for reviving it Bushy.

Ugh.  I didn't notice that the first page and a half of this thread was posted in 2008.  By now the original poster has probably given up all forms of human powered boating and switched to playing shuffleboard, assuming they survived their whitewater kayak experiments in 2008.

I think this thread came back because the OP recently started another similar thread:
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=100118.0

Oh man, this was a great read, thanks for reviving it Bushy.

Ugh.  I didn't notice that the first page and a half of this thread was posted in 2008.  By now the original poster has probably given up all forms of human powered boating and switched to playing shuffleboard, assuming they survived their whitewater kayak experiments in 2008.

I think this thread came back because the OP recently started another similar thread:
http://www.norcalkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=100118.0

I noticed that. Maybe the OP can fill us in as to how his 2008 whitewater kayak fishing adventures turned out...